User talk:JackFrost23

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Intelligence
Thanks for the blog comment and the entry on my talk page. I loved the "spelling Nazi" comment on your user page. I game under the same name that I edit under, "Belegthalion". If you are a PS3 gamer then please feel free to send me a friend invitation. I love MP gaming with intelligent gamers. Have fun!!

"Cowards die many times." 20:51, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Wow
You've been doing absolutely brilliant work on the wiki! I have been meaning to comment to you for awhile now. It's really appreciated. I hope you keep it up. Cheers -- Tiktaalik 04:29, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Well Done!
You've done so much on this wiki Im amazed at how many edits you've done. Well Done!!! :)

TonyPrinceGTA

Hi
Hi Jack,

Long time no see, how are you.

I see you have been busy, keep up the good work. What platform are you playing on. ?

11:05, June 27, 2010 (UTC)indie180

You sure know these 2 games
Dang Jack, you know alot about these 2 games, and those screenshots you put up were preetty awesome.

You got a Playstation 3?

We should play some RDR sometime, my name on the PS3 is modernkiller93. But i gotta get online first, because i don't have the $ to get the cable/routher or whatever yet. Thesilentgun 08:28, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Scarlet Lady
Ok man, and idk why alot of Ps3 gamers ask you thier names, i guess alot of people like the PS3. Anyway, you heard of the scarlet lady? She's thst woman that appears alot on RDR stuff. She's the mascot of RDR i think, and i got a hunch. I think she either looks like the scarlet woman from Grand Theft Auto 4, or is the same woman but was given a old west makeover.

Vandalism?
Hi I am not 100% certain but I think someone just vandalized the Bolt Action Rifle page as all it has now on it is the achievements that can be earned with it and it does not seem that a Red Dead Redemption page should have so little info. I apologize if by the time you are reading it has been reverted but if not I felt I should inform someone.Foxtrot12 22:57, July 1, 2010 (UTC) Sorry I mistoke that you had rollback powers and was an admin feel stupid I thought you would be seeing you are number three on the wiki my bad. Just ignore itFoxtrot12 23:01, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Failure Conditions
I implemented the failure conditions in }}. Just remember put breaks when there's optional fail conds.--Blaff 60 10:51, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Re: I'm ok with that, your choice.--Blaff 60 13:07, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Mission Dialogues
I'll be implementing mission dialogues in all walkthrough, then moving the walkthroughs to pages, well exception for the objective and fail conditions. I'll be forward to reply any opinions concerning about that.--Blaff 60 22:58, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

I Apologize
Sorry for that...I guess you're right about that, separating all the dialogues (i.e would be a good idea...--Blaff 60 20:54, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Dialogues
Good structure, I'll be working on it...--Blaff 60 17:29, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Is it necessary??
I'm answering a question in Talk:Missions in Redemption that, is it necessary to put 100% completion list on the page, since there is the main article?? I'm still wondering why...maybe you can answer or put some opinions on that question to avoid any arguments on that.--Blaff 60 16:10, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

Bounty Hunter Pics
Thanks for adding the wanted posters for all those outlaws! They're still stubs, but they look more complete now. I'm curious, where did you find them?Rocket8808 20:07, July 13, 2010 (UTC)User:Rocket8808


 * No problem, the bounty hunter category works better anyway. Does this mean that the outlaw category no longer needs to exist? If so, I don't mind. The fact that all the criminals (bounties) reside on one category seems good enough.Rocket8808 20:31, July 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Why was that lest message so small?Rocket8808 20:32, July 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because you put a space before the paragraph started and that makes the whole thing go wacky for some reason. I fixt it for you...


 * And I don't see any reason why Outlaws can't exist, tho' others might have issue with the fact that both categories are essentially the same thing. Your biggest problems could come from Blaff60 who tends to remove things he finds superfluous. If your category gets removed, please understand that was not my intention when adding 'Bounty Targets'.


 * Even tho I'm #3 or whatever, I don't think I own the place. :)

JackFrost23 20:40, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for staying
No problem, I'm really glad you chose to stay, and I really do think that we couldn't afford to lose you :)

--Anon talk 20:19, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism (in game)
I noticed that all of the story missions mention that the player will fail the mission if they commit vandalism. I was curious and checked out the stats in my game, to discover that I had 0 counts of vandalism. Might you have any idea what it is? If you do know, or know someone who knows, I think I might try it out. Thanks!Rocket8808 23:26, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * From what I understand, vandalism is kind of a rare thing. The only thing I can think of at the moment are the clay pots in Escalera that you've probably ignored up til now. If you break one just wandering around in the game you get a Bounty level, so I imagine if you broke one during a mission that would fail it for you. I think if you shoot streetlamps in Blackwater, that counts, too. And possibly lanterns in other locations...


 * I have to be honest, I haven't tried them to see what constitutes vandalism. I haven't looked at my count to see if I've actually committed vandalism.

Sorry if this didn't help much...

JackFrost23 23:42, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

Missions
I always thought they were in quotation marks, not italicized. General consensus rules, though. -- CoD addict 08:09, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which do you think looks better? Lemme know... :) --JackFrost23 08:22, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Technically, they really should be in quotation marks, but in reality, what we should keep is up to the community. -- CoD addict
 * Goddamnit, you're right.


 * I just finished the New Austin missions, and it even looks better. Thanks for the suggestion.


 * --JackFrost23 07:41, July 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Now they're all done, if you wanna check it out and let me know what you think. Cheers! -JackFrost23 22:41, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

pictures
This seems off topic, but do you know how to transfer a picture transferred from a youtube video into a saved file. I can only save it as a word document, and I don't know how to make it a save file (aka for adding to the wiki, or setting my background). Let me know, and if you don't, try to recommend someone who might.Rocket8808 21:09, July 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I don't have photoshop. Should I download it? Some links promise free downloads...Rocket8808 22:04, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks a bunch, this will look great. I just came across a really cool trailer for the game in which it shows Edgar Ross holding the High Power Pistol (favorite weapon, in case you were wondering). Also Ross is my favorite character (I'm kind of alone on that one...). Anyway, thanks again!Rocket8808 22:34, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Wanted Posters
They don't? If it's not too much trouble can you state which ones are wrong and I will either remove or replace them, because I'm pretty sure most are right, like Mescalero Mike, Shep Thomas and Billy Sanch

Oh that. Yeah I knew their NAMES are different but theyre the same character basically. So Ijust wanted to show who they were in single player and a nifty picture of them too. So yeah it should just be clearer I guess. Btw hope you dont mind me using your youtube trick for photos too. Alddous1031 01:31, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Alright. I guess I'll leave it up to the other people. If they want to take the posters off, I won't stop em. I'll let them decide.Alddous1031 01:41, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Whoa there!
Alright, Ill do the gallery thing and clean up the multiplayer pages I edited. Cause you asked nice =]Alddous1031 02:08, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, mate. If you need help, let me know. --JackFrost23 02:10, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * K done. Tell me if I miss any, but im pretty sure I got all of em. Alddous1031 02:14, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * K done. Tell me if I miss any, but im pretty sure I got all of em. Alddous1031 02:14, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Wiki Achievement Question
That's not something I can do. You see, the achievements aren't something the admins of the wiki can control, except for names, images and what achievements exist. Instead you'll have to contact User:Ausir and see if he can help you, as he's the one that actually works with Wikia. [[User:KristofferAG|- 18:57, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Icons
Putting the icons lto the left side of the page cause the page is to be unclear and messy, we need to find a place where those icons should be put.--Blaff 60 16:13, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

nice badges
hi, nice badges


 * "Badges?!


 * I don't need no steenking badges!"


 * :D


 * JackFrost23 01:02, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks
thanks for editing many pages it has really helped me through the game

Skinnyryz 07:46, July 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * I appreciate you saying so. I'm glad I could help, I really love this game.

u r awesome


 * Why, thank you, my anonymous friend...

RE: titles
It's always been a rule. For example, the page "Harold MacDougal" is not called "Professor Harold MacDougal" because we don't use titles. However, I don't know what to do when the only thing we know is "Mrs." or "Ms." If you think it was better the old way, just move it back to "Mrs. Bush" and "Mrs. Ditkiss." I don't really care until someone can find their full names in the credits. Thanks for your concern, though. -- CoD addict · (talk) 00:45, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Revert
Why did you revert my change?

Not only does it not make sense that it would add up to 100.5% on the PS3, but I also just confirmed that completing Solomon's Folly doesn't add anything to the completion statistic.


 * Uh, that wasn't me.


 * I re-added the Beecher's Hope Safehouse (Jack's Room) back onto the page because someone had removed it. I don't know who removed your edit, but you can check the page history and find out...


 * JackFrost23 20:56, August 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I did check the history. I guess you must've done it without noticing. Try to be more careful in future. - 81.109.18.32 22:24, August 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nope, it wasn't me, I know I didn't touch whatever you added. In fact, I hadn't even read the text until you cited it.


 * This is the third time I've posted this link which shows that you did indeed revert my edit at the same time as you reverted an edit by another user. I seem to recall there's a strange 'feature' of MediaWiki whereby using the "undo" link will undo multiple edits if said edits are from anonymous users, hence the warning about being careful. Vandalism due to ignorance is still vandalism.


 * Vandalism?! You have got to be fucking kidding me. You've got some serious balls for someone who won't even register to the site. Posting your IP isn't a bright idea, by the way.


 * So allow me to throw an accusation your way: If you added what you did and at the same time removed Beecher's Hope Safehouse (Jack's Room) from the 100% Completion page, then, yes, I undid your edit. If indeed you were the tool who removed that safehouse, then you shouldn't have and I'm sorry that your other edit got caught up in my correctly reversing a poor edit.


 * If you check the page history, you can see my edit, and the edit by the "tool" who removed the safehouse are indeed two separate edits, so perhaps you should check your facts before throwing accusations around.


 * And so we're clear, this link shows the edit I reversed and your text is nowhere in sight. I have no idea why it says I touched anything else because the only edit I was reversing was the removal of Jack's Room. I'm sorry your text is gone, but I'm afraid it still wasn't me.


 * As far as my being more careful, I am a registered user and you are not, so I think you know where you can stick that, my anonymous friend.


 * -JackFrost23 22:37, August 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey, there's no need to be rude. :/ - 81.109.18.32 23:54, August 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * You really have no sense of irony, do you?


 * -JackFrost23 03:59, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. Turns out I had an account I registered ages ago. :-)


 * Then why aren't you using it?


 * Because I forgot I had it. It was from a different Wikia site, and it was a long time ago. Frankly I don't understand why you feel the need to be so hostile towards anonymous users.


 * Not all of them, just you (well and the actual vandals). And I think we both know how you earned my hostility.

I'll start again, as it's getting a bit too indenty for my liking. Here's the diff I was referring to:-


 * Yes, I'm sure you'd like to drop that last conversation as it was getting out of your control.


 * No. It was because it wasn't going anywhere useful. I was merely trying to point out a fact, and you seemed to want a flamewar. Sorry, but if you want a flamewar, try someone else. Similarly, I haven't replied to the more flamebaity parts of your last reply.


 * There is no flame war, just me throwing back at you the pile of shit you keep trying to hand me. And it's amazing how people who piss other people off on the internet tend to whip out the flame war card when the argument they started doesn't go their way.


 * I don't need to see your fucking edit page again, I know what it looks like. When I undid the edit in this link (y'know the one from the conversation you avoided up above?) the return page did not show that any other text was removed or added except for the code for Jack's Room. If all of those other edits had shown, I would've taken the time to make sure they didn't get deleted.


 * I do not carelessly edit articles and I don't know why those changes got attributed to me.


 * I already explained (twice) why those changes were attributed to you. I was expecting something more like: "Ah. I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing that out."


 * There was no 'explanation' just blatant finger-pointing. And apparently you didn't read the part where I mentioned that if your text was shown as being removed I would've taken steps to make sure it wasn't. I did not edit your code, perhaps an anonymous user did and then it got attributed to me because I was the last registered editor. Maybe it's one of those 'quirks' you keep mentioning...

What it looks as if you've done is rolled back to the version by The Cool Bear, but in doing so, you also undid two other valid edits, in addition to the one you were trying to revert by "the tool". I'll go back and add in the other one you accidentally undid.


 * No, you need to check the link I gave you so you can see it was a simple reversal of an edit by someone else (not Cool Bear).


 * I fully understand what you were trying to do. It's just unfortunate that the MediaWiki software has a few quirks which can sometimes get in the way of an editor's best intentions.


 * Yes, and I fully understand what you're trying to do as well. It's just unfortunate that the human brain has a few quirks which can sometimes get in the way of people with giant egos being able see their own shortcomings.

As I said before, I seem to recall a 'feature' of MediaWiki whereby if you click on the "undo" link, it will also undo edits by anonymous users prior to the one you clicked on, so it's prudent to check the changes you make with the "Show changes" button before you submit them. I apologize if my earlier comment about "being careful" sounded a bit rude, but I just assumed you were already aware of this.


 * So, you know about this and still choose to do edits anonymously? Why am I still even talking to you about this, then? Use your registered account ferfucksake.

I was really only trying to determine if you'd deliberately reverted it, so as to avoid a potential 'edit war'. - Aya42 14:11, August 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Dude, it's one goddamn sentence and you've turned it into a huge issue, so the only one I'm worried about starting an 'edit war' is you.


 * Sure. It's only one sentence this time, but were you to make a similar mistake in the future, you could end up doing far more damage.


 * Fuck you and your "this time". After over 3,000 edits you are the first to complain, so I really do think the problem is yours in this case. You know why? Because I'm not a careless editor like you're trying to insinuate... (keep this sentence in mind when you try and figure out why I'm being hostile)


 * Oh, and thanks for naming the person I was talking about, I was trying to keep that on the downlow so people had to put in some work to find out who I was referring to. And you give people a helpful link to that person, well done. I knew full-well who made the edit, I was just being a dick to you after your accusations rubbed me the wrong way.


 * Perhaps the lesson for today is to be less insulting to other users, then you wouldn't have to attempt to conceal the targets of your insults.


 * Perhaps the lesson for today is that you're a condescending asshole who thinks very highly of himself to the point where he thinks his shit doesn't stink.


 * If you wanted to know if I deliberately removed your edit WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST ASK ME THAT? I would've told you "No." and we could've moved on with our lives.


 * I kinda did, but you claimed you didn't remove it. Something which you've finally realized you were mistaken about.


 * No, I realize that you are mistaken - your whole diatribe is to try and pin blame on me anyway. Over one goddamn sentence of superfluous importance.


 * Or is your sense of 'being right' so overwhelming that you need to keep this going?


 * -JackFrost23 15:54, August 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Now that you (seem to) understand your error, and the potential damage you could unwittingly do in the future, my work here is done, especially as you seem reluctant to engage in a rational discourse. - Aya42 16:46, August 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Look, you clearly don't want to have any 'discourse', you just want to tell me that I made an 'error' and that I need to be more cognizant of your editing and let it end there. I have engaged you, you just don't want to deal with what I'm saying. If you find my terseness disconcerting perhaps you should reflect on the way you've been handling yourself here.


 * You've made 5 edits total (which includes re-adding your sentence) and you're lecturing me? What balls...


 * Your problem, of course, is that you fail to see that you had any kind of contribution to your edit being removed.


 * So fuck off you self-absorbed prick.


 * No, seriously, don't reply.


 * -JackFrost23 17:43, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

And for my own edification, one final response:


 * Lol. --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 14:32, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * And one last thing to wrap it all up:
 * Epic BBQ Argument. -SoulWithin 09:53, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Epic BBQ Argument. -SoulWithin 09:53, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Epic BBQ Argument. -SoulWithin 09:53, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Epic BBQ Argument. -SoulWithin 09:53, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I Really Thought You Should See This
Aya42 -

Against my better judgment I've decided to contact you because I feel this really needs to be brought to your attention.

Below you will find one of those infamous 'diff' pages, but this one is a little special. See, here's how it goes:

The only edit I've made to the Edgar Ross page in quite some time is to add a pic to the gallery. Now in this particular instance, I used the button that appears on the article page itself to add pictures to the gallery. This is important because it means I never edited the page itself.

But look how many things got attributed to me, none of which I could possibly have done from the quick add pic window:



So, I hope we can both finally agree that there is a strong possibility (100%, in my estimation) that I never had anything to do with your code being removed at all, but got credit anyway.

I don't expect an apology, but it would really help to better our relationship if you could provide one.

And keep in mind that you earned my hostility, but I'm not a grudge-holder...

- JackFrost23 06:13, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Admire
I just wanted to say that I immensely admire your support to this wikia, and that the wiki is lucky to have you. Thank you. --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 20:42, August 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I-I'm flattered. Thanks so much for saying that, I really needed it...

PS: In your avatar, at first I thought it was a cat with a kar98 or a didgeridoo. But I think I was wrong


 * It's kinda hard to tell, but it's an infant with a shotgun in his mouth (a real one from the looks). The rest of the pic I cropped out shows that it's Christmas morning, so I'll bet the gun was a gift for Daddy and more than likely isn't loaded. I found the pic on the internet, so I have no real clue as to the actual origin.


 * -JackFrost23 20:48, August 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * P.S. - I forgot to mention that you're doing some fine work yourself, there Crowbar. :)

Moving it...
Dude, you should move your admin request to here: Red Dead Wiki:Requests For Adminship. The difference between those two pages was for and For .--Blaff 60 16:08, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * If that's the case then the link at the top of the applications page needs to be fixed. I clicked on it and it took me to a new page. Lemme guess, you changed the name of the page without editing the link, too... ;P


 * -JackFrost23 16:12, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Fixed the link and moved my and Crowbar's applications to the proper page. Cheers!


 * - JackFrost23 16:18, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, like I told Blaff, that was confusing, I really don't get why capitalization makes so much of a difference. Anyway, good luck.--Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 16:23, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

3fallout
Have you ever been really pissed of by someone, wanted to get them banned, but can't? Please, just look at 3fallout's contributions, what an ass. --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 20:01, August 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, he seem to just be making comments as far as most of his contribs I've looked at. Granted I saw where he added a picture and just tacked it onto the end of a paragraph and some unnecessary trivia, but that's not ban-worthy, in my estimation.


 * I'm not saying you're wrong, just point me to some examples that are truly egregious. ;)


 * - JackFrost23 20:11, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

With pleasure. here, and His other side boosting Swearing and being a jerk after I said this to him: "Badges

No. No no no no NO! You will likely be banned for points boosting, please do not do things just for badges, again, persist, and you will likely be banned. Okay? --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 18:34, August 5, 2010 (UTC)" --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 20:16, August 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * I can see your point on the boosting thing, but I can't get behind the swearing thing. Firstly, he just put the cartoon representation of swearing on your talk page, and secondly, I swear for impact, so I do tend to use it occasionally. Hell, check out the long argument Aya42 started with me because he thought I'd removed a sentence he'd added (which I didn't).


 * So, I'm the wrong one to come to about foul language being used. :D ;P - JackFrost23 20:33, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I Apologize
Hello my name is 3fallout I am sorry for what I was doing I just thought that the earning badges thing was part of the wiki so if i did something bad i am sorry.


 * No worries, mate. The badges are part of the wiki, but you should earn them making necessary edits. -JackFrost23 23:10, August 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm... you didn't know, despite the fact that I left you two warnings on your talk page? Sigh... but I digress... --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 23:11, August 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, Crowbar's correct, you really can't act like you were ignorant. - JackFrost23 01:55, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Did you see?
Yeah, perhaps, but I am still wary and will keep my eye on him. But you are right, I should probably be a little less harsh, it would affect things sooner. --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 02:07, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

keep watch out for unregistered editors
i just cleaned two pages where people added teh word "sex" in every other paragraph, please stay on the lookout for more who will do the same.


 * Thanks for doing that, and I stay on top of what I can, but my being at the top of the rankings doesn't mean I'm an administrator.


 * I only see the pages I'm following...


 * - JackFrost23 19:44, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * ~Doc Holliday Hey guys just want to say thanks for the work and effort you've put into this page. Fight the good fight. Have Fun and Good Luck. psn= q_Doc-Holliday_p Hope to see on the range. 8)
 * ~Doc Holliday Hey guys just want to say thanks for the work and effort you've put into this page. Fight the good fight. Have Fun and Good Luck. psn= q_Doc-Holliday_p Hope to see on the range. 8)

RE: Thanks
Yeah, I was just defaulsorting all the characters and I came across "Bush". And I was kinda like.... Wait what? And Ditkiss just sounds wrong.... --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 21:33, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

3fallout help
i dont know if you are an administrator but i just wanted to let you know that i made a mistake in the Savvy Merchant outfit

page and i dont know how to fix it cause i still need to get used to te editing stuff -(3fallout 02:30, August 7, 2010 (UTC))


 * I am not an admin, but even if I were you could undo your own edits.


 * Go into the history tab on the page you made a mistake and it'll show you a list of edits. Find the one at the top of the list with your name beside it and there should be an 'undo' tab for you click.


 * Voila!

ok thanks(3fallout 14:24, August 7, 2010 (UTC))
 * - JackFrost23 03:37, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Mission pages
Sounds good. I'll protect them all. (Sorry for the inactivity, I'm literally moving cross country) Thanks, -- CoD addict · (talk) 03:34, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Argh
Just like you, I have been cheated out of my "Pistoleer" badge... oh, well. It's not like it really matters. But still. Damn. lol -- CoD addict · (talk) 04:15, August 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * When I asked KristofferAG about it, he gave me this admin's name, User:Ausir, who apparently has some kind of control over the badge achievements. You should try and bring it up with him/her.


 * I ultimately decided not to bother trying to fight for it because I knew I was going to be at the San Diego Comic Con for a week and would likely lose it anyway. Something which ultimately happened because I didn't get a chance to log on except once, and that was just to leave a message that I would be gone... :D


 * - JackFrost23 04:52, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your hard work.
Some good reading. Doc Holliday 05:09, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

New Challenge!

have been reading some pretty good stuff. keep up the good work :P :)


 * Thanks very much. :)


 * Any specifics on what you liked in particular?


 * - JackFrost23 05:55, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Dixon crossing
He Jack i noticed today you have put info on the dixon crossing page.

This name is a reverr to Samuel Dixon who crossed several huge gaps and bridges on a highrope, with nothing but a pole to keep his balance.

maybe you can put that in to? (youre a much better writer than me)

anywayz do what you like GreetzSpazzacamino 17:37, August 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I'll have to do a little research before I'll do that, but also, 'outside trivia' like this has been targeted by some as being unnecessary information. I do not agree because I think at some level trivia of this kind kind of illuminates the influences that made it into the game.


 * If I can successfully lobby to have outside trivia on the pages, I'll consider adding your reference to Dixon Crossing.


 * Cheers!


 * - JackFrost23 20:49, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Gentlemen, Behold!
Sorry, I've gotten addicted to Harvest Moon recently, but yeah, I saw it, so basically it didn't work... right? Anyway, I'll remove any of those hidespoil tags I see... --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 21:01, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

I'm back...
...but my internet is a little bit slower... >:D -- CoD addict · (talk) 15:54, August 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hope the move went okay. ;)


 * I've been changin' up all sorts of stuff while you were away. I even turned all the Strangers and their missions purple! :D


 * Anyway, welcome back...


 * - JackFrost23 16:03, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Vandals
TNT already got the first one, but I blocked the other for a month. Thanks for the report, and keep it up! -- CoD addict · (talk) 17:16, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * No prob. :)


 * - JackFrost23 17:26, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Dude.
What you did to the Stranger missions is awesome. It really relates the player to the missions better than having them all look the same. -- CoD addict · (talk) 17:19, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I appreciate you saying so... :)


 * Yeah, I wanted those side-missions set apart somehow from the story missions, and it just dawned on me that I could change the background color. :D


 * I also changed all of the actual Strangers to purple as well, so they'll match their mission pages.


 * I'm at work at the moment, but tonight I'll probably finish all the rest of the locations without maps.


 * Cheers!


 * - JackFrost23 17:29, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Welcome to the team!
hey there, welcome to the RD wiki team. If you have any questions in which ways we (the admins) warn vandals, and how long blocks generally are, or anything else concerning your newfound rank, please ask me. I'm here to help Lordofthelargepants The Zipper and The Pockets 09:51, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Congrats
Congratulations on your promotion. --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 17:28, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Congrats...
...on becoming an administrator. You've been a great help to the wiki. -- CoD addict · (talk) 21:36, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

RE:?
I dunno.... I just thought the pink looked really ugly.... and I didn't think that there needed to be a strangers userbox. But whatever.... meh... I just woke up. --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 19:52, August 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Heh. :)


 * If you're seeing pink, then you might need to adjust your monitor because the color is actually purple, the same color as the question mark that appears on the map showing their location... :D


 * The only reason I MADE the stranger infobox was so I could change their color. Otherwise just change it back to characterbox and the colors will revert. The background color is the only difference between the two templates (made for easy editing that way).


 * I wanted them to match their Side-missions (which are also purple) and set them apart from other characters in the game since they aren't major characters giving and involved in multiple quests, but they aren't minor insignificant characters either...


 * Please let me know if you get any negative feedback on it, tho. I have had a couple of people, including CoD, think it was a good change, but consensus rules, of course.


 * Cheers!
 * - JackFrost23 20:04, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Handy....
I made a template for admins, this would be handy for us esp. pages needed deletion/merging, if you want to add it to your user page or not, just contact me...--Blaff 60 22:13, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Hi
Hi, it is a cool picture, but it's not luisa. It's just an NPC and multiplayer character Arlene Dunn

Thanks

Re:Handy
.--Blaff 60 10:15, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Hi
Woops on my part, in the trailer, they had a montage of NPCs swell as luis a telling John Marston that she is not afraid to die. Her character skin can randomly be seen throughout Mexico, and in outfitter, misc women, she is the fourth one along.

when I first saw the trailer I thought it was luisa too until a paused it.

Cheers

Pages creation
The only way to do that is to make a page of that name, and lock it, sorry. If the anons keep doing that, block them for a while. And there is actually a forum, an in-wiki forum, but then again, the links were removed, and I forgot what they were... i'm going to ask Ausir (wiki helper) how to. Let me get back to you on that Lordofthelargepants The Zipper and The Pockets 11:02, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Character: Espinoza
Why is Espinoza a minor character? He is relevant character in Mexico Chapter. Minor characters are only characters that appear one or two times in story and have no importance. I think he should be a supporting character. Thanks Imperial Guerreiro 10:31, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Character: Espinoza
Why is Espinoza a minor character? He is relevant character in Mexico Chapter. Minor characters are only characters that appear one or two times in story and have no importance. I think he should be a supporting character. Thanks Imperial Guerreiro 10:32, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Firstly, the place to make the argument about a tier change is ON THE DISCUSSION PAGE FOR THE CHARACTER.


 * Secondly, this argument should be made and agreed upon by at least some other registered user BEFORE THE CHANGE IS MADE.


 * Thirdly, when editing the characterbox at the bottom of the page - TRY TO RECOGNIZE THAT EACH LIST OF CHARACTERS IS IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER. Do not just tack Espinoza onto the end of the list, put him in the proper place.


 * When these three criteria are met, I will agree to stop undoing the edit.


 * I just recently downgraded Norman Deek from supporting to minor using this exact method.


 * Hope this helps and no hard feelings, I hope.


 * Cheers!

- JackFrost23

Ok. I am sorry for my mistakes. I´m new in this wiki so forgive me. But i have now put my argument on the talk page! Thanks!Imperial Guerreiro 11:23, September 9, 2010 (UTC) 10:53, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Mr. Frazier
I suspect our attempts to repeatedly correct Landon Ricketts' name has P.O.'ed whoever keeps making it Landon Frazier; my user page has been editied with a statement indicating that I participate in homoerotic activities and an entire paragraph reading "I am Landon Frazier" over and over again.

I love it when they learn to use the cut and paste function. EmceeGrath 20:23, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, I blocked him.


 * I assume you were able to restore your user page?


 * I really don't know why people waste their time with this crap.


 * - JackFrost23 20:44, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Hey
Hey, can I file a complaint on another user?

-Hoff0320xz


 * I suppose so, what seems to be the problem?


 * - JackFrost23 04:49, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * It may not seem that serious but Phantom Stranger said my revision was 'retarded' and I was a little offended because my brother is retarded. Can you do anything about it? Hoff0320xz 04:52, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * It may not seem that serious but Phantom Stranger said my revision was 'retarded' and I was a little offended because my brother is retarded. Can you do anything about it? Hoff0320xz 04:52, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks man, I appreciate it. Hoff0320xz 05:03, August 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have asked him to refrain from using the word in his edit comments.


 * However, in his defense, I'm certain he was just using it as an adjective and not as a direct epithet to your brother. I'm sure he didn't mean any offense and I'm hoping there will be no animosity between you.


 * Let me know if you do not find my response to this problem satisfactory.


 * - JackFrost23 05:05, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm just glad you said something about it, thanks Hoff0320xz 05:07, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm just glad you said something about it, thanks Hoff0320xz 05:07, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

hi, I'm sorry about the changes, I'll Talk to the administrators first before doing anything major. I've just been doing a lot of comparisons between tiers and sometimes I find a characters have different information on different pages. I'm sorry about the links too, I've been in a bit of a hurry which isn't a good way to work. I try to touch up any mistakes I find. thanks for telling me anyway it's a much better system.

Cheers!

Ideas
I think just Marston's family and Dutch's old gang being the major characters. As for a new Tier, All I can think of if possibly something like, Assisting characters or Semi-Major Characters or even preliminary characters.


 * There is no way that Edgar Ross is anything less than a major character, and I throw Fordham in because the two are inseparable.


 * But now I realize that Ross is a mission giver, so by the new tiers he'd be a Central Character, just like Jack, Abigail and Uncle.


 * How 'bout this for the Tiers:


 * Major characters: John Marston, his old gang, Edgar Ross, et al. - the characters that are the reason we're even being told this story, essentially...
 *  Central characters : The mission-givers
 * Supporting characters: All of the other characters who have a decent-sized part but do not give missions, like Espinoza, Eli, Jonah, etc.
 * Minor characers: This one's easy, and yes I think Strangers should be considered minor still because the player does not have to do the Stranger missions at all to complete the game (barring the player's desire for 100% Completion, of course).

also do you think that all characters who give stranger tasks should be miner characters, because some are encountered quite frequently. Or are characters organized in tiers due to their relevance in the story.


 * Whups, I think I answered these above... xD

On a side note, the user irishcowboy1911 has been causing a few problems to articles such as removing necessary information, breaking links, and messing with the layout of the page.


 * Yes, I've blocked him once already for doing similar edits. I have reversed several of his changes and re-edited some others.


 * I have given him a fair warning about being more conscientious about his edits. We'll see where it goes from here...

Cheers!


 * Indeed.


 * - JackFrost23 15:58, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Tiers
The name central characters is a perfict name, Personally I think Jack should be a major character as he is the second protagonist of the game, but I see your point. As for characters like colonel Allende, he is Not technically the mission giver as he gives them through Captain De Santa. should he Be a central character or supporting, he does have a larger impact on the story than De Santa.

I think were defiantly on the right track.

Cheers!


 * Then Central characters it is. :)


 * While Jack becomes the main protagonist for the very last side-mission, when he's a mission-giver and part of the main storyline, he's still a teenager. So the Jack we get to play has very little to do in the story.


 * Oh, for sure Allende is Supporting, as is Espinoza and several others now that we have a new division, several characters can get upgrades from minor to supporting.


 * Oh, and I think we should leave all the characters on the same page and divide them by sections instead of creating a separate page for each tier.


 * Gimme your thoughts.

- JackFrost23 15:17, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

sounds good to me, personally I think Allende should be a central character as he is the cause of the revolution, which all of John Marstons missions relate to, but I guess he would do okay is supporting. We can delete the Major, supporting and miner articles and organize them all into 4 subheadings. nearly there but just one more question. Should bounty targets be considered miner characters? also all the named characters which Marsron interacts with in minigames


 * I don't think so. I think Bounty Targets are a special class of character because you don't interact with them the same as the story characters (you just apprehend or kill them) and they aren't really a part of the story. I'm not saying we shouldn't have pages for them (we do last time I checked) I just don't think they should be considered story characters.

Like poker, arm wrestling, duels and five finger fillet, Should they be put under miner characters or just not mentioned at all?


 * Yeah, same thing with game players as with Bounty Targets. Unless they also have a role in the story other than just being someone you find at one of the tables. And, again, I think they should have character pages (so should all the duellists), I just don't think they're story characters.

cheers!


 * Yes, cheers! I hope this makes sense. Let me know what you think...


 * - JackFrost23 16:27, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Confirmation
sounds like it's all ready to go ahead, I don't have the power to delete pages so I'll leave to you. Can I just ask should there be an article for non story charters? Because they do have pages and it is good if there is a portal to access them. under the miners characters section we can make sub sections for stranger tasks and story missions. Also should shop keepers be considered non story?


 * Oh, absolutely they should be listed. In fact, we can still put them on the characters page, just not list them with Major, Central, Supporting or Minor characters since those designations should be reserved for characters in the main storyline. We'll just add sections for Bounty Targets, Duelists and Gamers.

just give the word when we can make the changes.


 * Lemme go through the list and try to organize the characters first 'on paper'. That way I we can see any potential tier problems before we go changing the articles.

Cheers!


 * Indeed.


 * - JackFrost23 17:11, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Dargh
http://reddead.wikia.com/index.php?title=Bear_One_Another%27s_Burdens&diff=prev&oldid=86699 Jack.... So now we aren't supposed to delete the periods like I have been doing? Even though they are items in a bulleted list? I am confused. --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 15:59, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a good Idea, I'll leave you to it! :)

Fliping
I think thats a good Idea by swapping the names central and major. Is Edgar Ross still a Major/Central character along with Johns old gang? Personally I thinks there might just be too much of a spread between supporting characters like from Allende the most powerfull man in Nuevo Paraiso. Who is seen or mentioned in every singly mission in the chapter, to Raul Zubieta an army officer who Marston duels and just happens to have a name. Is their a way we can separate those characters?

Cheers!


 * Of course we can keep Zubieta as a minor character - I just overestimated his importance when doing the list for you. But he whole point of my showing you the list was for you to point out stuff like that. So if you see any other characters I may have given too much importance to, or that need to be promoted that I missed, let me know.


 * I also have some specific code in mind to place on the character pages that will link back to the character list and to the proper section. I can give you the code and then you pretty much just have to cut and paste it on whichever characters you edit.


 * We are nearly there. :)


 * - JackFrost23 21:29, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

blocking
Wait, I forgot to tell? I thought I told you. Apolagies for the oversight, but you get the drift. Lordofthelargepants The Zipper and The Pockets 21:47, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Looked at your block template. Protected it. Remember to protect those kind of templates from vandals especially Lordofthelargepants The Zipper and The Pockets 21:49, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Whoops! Thought I'd done that. Thanks - JackFrost23 21:51, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Character pics
I hope it will, 'cause I didn't want to waste my time adding those pics, I wanted to help. - KibolLP_97

Code
cool, what's the code?


 * Still formulating it, I'll get back atcha soon. ;)


 * Then we can start the changes.


 * - JackFrost23 22:41, August 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * P.S. - It will be similar to the code I did for the mission flow section in the info boxes of all the mission pages.


 * - JackFrost23 22:46, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

sounds good, hear from you soon.


 * Hey, just checking in with you so you don't think I'm blowing you off. I'd started on cleaning up the achievements/trophies pages before this came up, so I've been busy with that.


 * However, I wanted to ask you. How do you feel about the way the character pages have their backgrounds hidden? Personally, I don't care for it because the hide box messes up the page layout often leading to huge blank spaces on the pages, and having the spoiler tag in the middle of the page is just ugly.


 * I want to remove that code and just have the background info displayed. If we put the spoiler tag at the top of the page it pushes the info down a little further so a reader has to scroll to get to it. And once they do, they've voluntarily decided to risk spoilers.


 * I'm all behind not spoiling things for people, but I'm also of the opinion that if you're going to peruse a game guide, you've got to expect some kind of spoilage.


 * Basically, the reason I'm asking is that we could make that change at the same time as making the edits for the tier changes.


 * Let me know your opinion, if it's in alignment with my own, I'll lobby Blaff and Crowbar (who are responsible for it being there) to see if it's okay if we remove it.


 * Sorry if this is too wordy and if I seem to be dragging my feet.


 * Cheers!


 * - JackFrost23 17:10, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Hahaha
I saw all those files you uploaded, and I just passed them off as normal... until I realized that they all had the same filename. --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 20:10, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the fuckin' pic refuses to update. No matter what I do it still displays the old file. And when I try to update the file again, it shows the one I want to display in the file history only. If I try to revert to the one I want, it taunts me by continuing to display the old file while showing me the one I want in the history.


 * I even deleted the whole pic and started from scracth, but the old, crappy version still persists. I'm stumped...


 * - JackFrost23 20:28, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm.... for now, just upload it to imageshack/photobucket etc. and put that in the page. Just temporarily though. --Crowbar, resident grammar ninja 20:42, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * The only problem with that is that I NEED to update the pic because it's on over 100 pages already, so a manual change is really out of the question. So if I use my Imageshack acount for it, it might be right on that one page, but it'll still be the old file everywhere else... :-/ - JackFrost23 20:55, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Picture won't change
This appears to be a wikia wide problem, it happened to me yesterday on a different wiki.

I think you should contact wikia and report this problem or just to get answers. --Anon talk 20:31, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Anon. I have written them, but I don't expect much. I haven't had good responses from support for any site, to be honest. They seem to want to try and pass off problems onto the user. That somehow I'm the one who's in error...


 * Like when I asked R* to explain the discrepancy between the game stats that say there are 17 locations in West Elizabeth, but if you count them in the game and on the R* Social Club map, there are only 15.


 * The response I got was to go to the fansite called Red Dead Wiki for more information. :D


 * I have yet to receive a response since pointing out that I am an editor here.


 * - JackFrost23 21:39, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * They'll probably write something like "We're working on it" without an explanation of what is wrong.
 * Let me know if you get something from them, I'm always curious about this stuff :) --Anon talk 22:31, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, they did just as I suspected and gave me instructions to do things I'd already done before contacting them (see, the problem is me, right?). So I responded that I'd already tried everything they'd they'd advised, and put in a bit where I asked if there was some way they might be able to check to see if the problem is on their end.


 * Silence so far, but I'll keep ya posted.


 * - JackFrost23 22:45, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I also sent them a message just now, but from another wiki. Maybe if they get a bunch of messages from all around, then they'll get to work :) --Anon talk 13:30, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Here's the message I received:
 * "Hey,
 * "Hey,


 * Thanks for letting us know about this. It's actually a bug that's been doing this to images across Wikia. Right now it's one of the highest priorities for our technical team, so they're working to fix it ASAP. Thanks for your patience, and feel free to let us know if you need anything else!


 * Best regards


 * Brandon Rhea"
 * So it should be fixed "soon", which will probably take a couple of days :) --Anon talk 17:29, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * So it should be fixed "soon", which will probably take a couple of days :) --Anon talk 17:29, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Anon. ;) - JackFrost23 15:56, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

spoilers.
Personally I don't think background info should be hidden. If people want to be completely spoiler free, they probably wouldn't be looking at this website in the first place.


 * My thoughts exactly.


 * I think a lot of effort is being made to make sure that a reader doesn't see any spoilers, but once they start scrolling they're on their own.


 * I've had to reverse another edit today that wouldn't have happened if the background info weren't hidden. So, if you intend to help me edit the characters for tiers, one of the things we have to do is remove the code that hides the background info and move the spoiler box to the top of the page. So, keep this in mind in case I forget to mention it again.

Can I also ask why it's necessary under interactions to have the "Hold it right there outlaw!" as well as the spoiler alert box as the template sometimes merges with other templates and it would be a bit cleaner without it. I also think that it should say what tier a character is under.But that's only my opinion.


 * Yeah, we'll be changing that.

Sorry for clogging up too much here but can I also ask something else? All the characters which have their own wallpaper with the quote next to it, were given that picture as their main article picture. I thought it was pretty good as they were pretty cool pictures. but now, some of them are replaced with old pictures of very poor quality and it doesn't look very nice, Was that supposed to happen?


 * Well, anyone can edit the wiki, right? So it goes for the pics. Personally, I like the uniformity where the characters have square pics and the missions and locations have widescreen pics, but that's just me and my design aesthetic. But, bottom line: if you want another pic up there, change it. But others also have the ability to change it as well. So it could get reverted. If it gets changed too often one of the admins will have to step in to find consensus.


 * If you do not like a change, you have the ability to undo it. Just be sure to say why you did it in the description thing.


 * And no worries on how long this has gotten - we're actually having a discussion - something I can never get out of most people who edit here. :)


 * I've been trying to get Wiki to admit they need to check their servers about pics not updating correctly so I can finish the Achievement stuff, but my next project after that is the characters. So probably next week sometime we'll start in earnest.

Cheers!


 * Indeed, mate.


 * - JackFrost23 16:15, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Alright
my computer is not very good with picture files so it's pretty difficult for me to upload pictures but at the end of the day it doesn't matter too much. talk to you in about a week. Till then, Cheers!

Just saying hi
Nice work contributing to the wiki man! You've done well! RedMarston 16:28, September 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for noticing. :)


 * Cheers!


 * - JackFrost23 18:25, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Logo vandalism
Hey, this guy has vandalized a couple of pages with two accounts (User:Kutkopspambot and User:Kutkopspambot2)

I reverted all the vandalism, but you'll need to visit File:Wiki.png and delete the logo he uploaded, and while you're at it you might protect the image so it doesn't happen again. Cheers. --Anon talk 18:42, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also I reported him/them on the VSTF wiki so he should get a global block. --Anon talk 18:57, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Vandal
Got another one for ya. --Anon talk</tt> 02:47, September 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thnaks, Anon. Got 'em both. :) - JackFrost23 02:51, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Tip for flower hunting
dont know if your the right guy to talk to but you seem to have the most edits among all mods on the site so maybe you can help.

ive been using this site to help me out while playing and one thing ive yet to see mentioned on any of the tip sections for the flower pages is that you can actually press Down on the D-Pad repeaditly which zooms in and out your map and an icon will appear for any near by flowers, they normally dont show up on the in game map without doing this or if they do they tend appear and dissapear in a split second, but if you keep toggling the zoom it forces them to show up if theres any around you.

plus you can cover alot more ground doing this on horseback since you just have to focus on the map for icons, rather than moving slow and physically looking for flowers in the grass.


 * Interesting. I didn't know about the D-Pad thing. It's very low on my priority list, but I do plan on doing some organization of the flower pages and I'll definitely add that.


 * It's amazing the things I'm still finding out about the game. someone last night hipped me to the fact that you can press 'Y' in the journal entry to get more info on a particular challenge. also, I need to add a section on how to surrender to the law, which also is not on here anywhere.


 * It is a work in progress, after all. ;) Thanks for the note.


 * - JackFrost23 01:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Reverted edit.
Why did you revert my edit to the Trophies/Achievements page? I was making the list  more  accurate. How is that not good for the Wiki? Juicestain09 21:15, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Honestly? Because it looked like crap with all the lower-cased letters - very unprofessional, actually.


 * We're not necessarily trying to make it 'accurate' to one system or another, so the change was a little unnecessary. Because while they may be lower cased on the PS3, they are not on the XBOX360 so you've made it inaccurate for XBOX players. The page titles go by the way you should capitalize words when they are part of a title (tho some here still don't know much about that either) irrespective of one system over the other. The fact that it happens to coincide with the way XBOX spells the achievements is coincidence.


 * And the Legendary Achievement wasn't added until the Legends and Killers DLC, which is why it's with those. Y'know, so it's accurate and all?


 * Cheers!


 * - JackFrost23 21:35, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, first of all, there is no need to be such a jerk about all this. I probably could've been nicer in my original message, but geez...you're an administrator, represent the Wiki a little better.


 * It makes one wonder whether you found out I was an admin before you restored those poor edits without waiting for my response to your question about it, or after you didn't like my terse response to your restoring your poor edits.


 * I'm betting on the latter.


 * And what makes you think that my being an admin means I'm supposed to be nice to you?


 * Second of all, why would you not want to make an article accurate to where it was pulled from? I realize that in this case the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions are different, so it should be accurate to whichever version appears most professional. That makes sense to me. And on that note, I didn't know the Xbox 360 version was different. If I had, I wouldn't have worried about it. I just assumed they were the same. I talked to Ausir earlier about the capitalization issue and he said that according to Wikia, all titles should be appropriately capitalized. But in this case, the actual topic title includes uncapitalization, which to me still seems like "appropriate capitalization" due to it being the actual topic title.


 * Okay - Then why not follow that line all the way through? Why not change the page names to the titles you want them to be? Because those would still be 'inaccurate' they way you did it. The link would have the lower-case letters, but the article title would have upper case. So they wouldn't match.


 * Is that what you consider 'better for the wiki'?


 * I'm sorry, but I just don't agree.


 * Lastly, I never removed the Legendary achievement/trophy from the Legends and Killers DLC section. I simply moved it to where it is displayed in the actual PS3 trophy list. This was to be accurate with the whole "sorted in the same way as the default PS3 trophy list" as is said at the top of the article.


 * Yes, that was my mistake and I apologise. It looked as if you'd moved it into another section, but I was just reading it wrong.


 * But I will have to point out that the order in the columns is somewhat irrelevant based on the fact that there are tabs at the tops of each column that allow the reader to reorganize the table.


 * So settle down, pull back on the disrespect, and try to understand.


 * As I'm sure you're not aware, but I've spent the last week or so doing clean-up on that page and all the pages linked from it.


 * Going through and finding how many things conflicted simply because one editor plays on a PS3 and another plays on an XBOX was pretty irritating. For instance, the name of the page has been changed multiple times and at one point it was changed from Achievements/Trophies to Trophies/Achievements (which it is now). This edit could only have been done by someone who plays on the PS3. I tried to compromise by having the articles then say achievement before trophy, but I don't know how long that'll hold.


 * So, after sorting all of that out, to have you come in and undo things I'd just done to 'make it accurate', and then have to restore those edits without waiting for a response to why I reversed them was kind of incensing.


 * I hope you can see why my second message to you was a little hostile.


 * --Juicestain09 02:30, September 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * - JackFrost23 15:24, September 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * P.S. - I'm the one who changed the colors of the fonts for Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc, and I chose metallic gold when I did it. So please don't get all butt-hurt when I change it back from that yellow that you put in instead.


 * Cheers! - JackFrost23 15:24, September 10, 2010 (UTC)