He is a merc not a cop, he sided with Fussar and Cornwall, was allies with Micah, Shot Lenny and Hosea the most innocent out of the whole gang. Legit Edgar Ross 2.0
He is a merc not a cop, he sided with Fussar and Cornwall, was allies with Micah, Shot Lenny and Hosea the most innocent out of the whole gang. Legit Edgar Ross 2.0
Now this is of course an opinion, so take this with a grain of salt and please state your opinion of what you think happened to Dutch. But in this post, I'll discuss what could have happened to Dutch that made him into the insane psychopath murderer and outlaw he was at the end of RDR2 and during the original Red Dead Redemption.
So, there are two sides of course to what could have happened to Dutch and it's those two that most people of course choose between. One is the "Dutch changed from a good leader with morals to a blood hungry murderer" and the other is "Dutch just showed his true colours, he was always like this and never a man of principle". Now, I have always been on the boat of Dutch having changed, but I have thought it through and I personally believe that it is a small mix of both. Dutch did have that darkness within him but he was always able to control his impulses and he always was a principled man who did believe what he preached to the gang. And one big part that always kept Dutch in check and challenged him was of course good ole Hosea.
Now, there are other reasons that I will delve into that could be a catalyst for Dutch changing and his dark impulses coming out more:
Blackwater: This is undoubtly what started his struggles. The Blackwater Ferry job is what started the downfall of the Van der Linde gang, and one major moment that occured here was Dutch shooting mother Heidi McCourt in cold blood during the robbery. The reason for this is unclear, but it could be that Dutch was stressed and pressured into killing him by Micah, as Micah was "pressuring Dutch to kill her". Or maybe Dutch did because he could, whether he knew the reason for it or not. Why he killed Heidi is unclear but it is clear that him killing her had a big affect on him in some way. And the massive gunfight did have a affect on Dutch too in some way.
Some in the gang beginning to doubt him: The gang had always been a firm believer of Dutch's ideals and always had faith in him (besides Micah of course). But during the game and even at the beginning in both Chapter 1 and 2, some began to show doubts after what happened in Blackwater etc. This of course affects Dutch because he can't handle people not having faith in his abilities to lead them. Those who began to show doubts first are Hosea and John (that I think of at least). So people beginning to be unsure and doubtful of Dutch seems to have a affect on him.
The Pinkertons on their tail: Undoubtly having the Pinkertons on their tail and the law in general now with his now massive price on his head might put tons of pressure and stress on Dutch, which seems to get worse overtime as the gang causes more and more noise in Blackwater, Valentine, Strawberry, Rhodes, Saint Denis and Roanoke Ridge.
Micah's influence: Do I even need to explain this? Micah's presence and influence is certaintly something that affects Dutch the worst way as Micah tries to push Dutch to indulge in his dark impulses of murder and chaos.
Gang members dying: I mean... when 5 members of your gang are killed within a few months, it's definitely going to mess with you a bit I feel like. I'm talking of course about Jenny, Davey, Mac, Sean and Kieran.
Head injury during trolly station robbery: Now, I don't think this is what caused Dutch to fully go crazy, as some would think. But I do agree that this potential head injury or concussion he suffered might have had a affect in his thinking and emotions after he, Arthur and Lenny fell into a trap by Bronte who betrayed them, something that pisses Dutch right off.
His brutal murder of Bronte: Now this is where Dutch's emotions, impulses and dark side shine through, when he brutally drowns Bronte to death and then feeds him to a alligator, a action shocking his proteges John and Arthur.
Hosea and Lenny's murder: Hosea's death and the bank robbery going completely wrong definitely affected Dutch so much, especially Hosea's death, a man he looked at as a best friend and brother, someone who always was there for Dutch, kept him in check and loved so much like a brother. Shot as a unarmed prisoner in a brutal way. Lenny's death didn't help either, as while Dutch didn't have like a strong relationship with Lenny like he had with Hosea but Lenny was someone Dutch liked very much, sort of like a young Hosea in a sense who challenged Dutch's views and Dutch's obsession with Evelyn Miller.
Time in Guarma: Dutch wasn't fully able to process Hosea and Lenny's death as he, Arthur, Bill, Javier and Micah get stranded on Guarma for a while and fight to survive and get out. And also Dutch decides to brutally murder a old woman, who yes did threaten Dutch with a knife because he couldn't pay her back for her leading them to a entrance to the place Javier was held at, still decided to brutally murder her in front of Arthur.
His growing dillusion of believing John may be a rat, Arthur becoming sick and Micah's growing influence on Dutch with Hosea now gone: This is honestly self explanitory.
Hope this was easy to read through and understand and I hope I did a ok job explaining what happened to Dutch.
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My favorite is The Spines of America and my least favorite is The Joys of Civilization.
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I realized this a few days ago and was thinking of putting it here to see what cowpokes think
Look:
I hear your opinions
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Could it be a fair point to argue that the realty leader of the gang was hosea? I mean he did found the gang with Dutch and it was only when he was still alive that it felt like the gang was not Broken it feels like after he died the gang kinda lost direction on what todo and I feel like when he died Dutch felt exposed leading to the actions later on into the game because hosea was the moral compass, I could argue it could have almost been like the situation between Negan and Simon with the saviors in the walking dead how one wanted todo things one way different then the other and because of that it ultimately lead to one of them being killed and it was after that took place was when the group started to fall apart. I feel the same type of situation in the gang, does anyone else agree?
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Look. I know countless people have had their own ideas but I worked really hard on this so I hope you can atleast give it a shot...
My idea for rdr3 is play as Hosea.
Prologue you play his origin in the 1870's and what lead him to a life of being an outlaw. We see that event where he was almost hanged for killing a chicken.
Now as for Chapters between each would be a timeskip of a few years. The map of the game would be huge and due to the power of PC's and consoles by the time the game releases I think it should be possible.
Anyway back to the story
Chapter 1 would pick up about a year later and build up to the meeting between Hosea and a certain Dutch Van der linde in around 1877. In its final mission they are sitting in a bar and decide to become partners in crime.
During this chapter we see a young and not experienced Dutch being pining for and being shy over his eventual love, Annabelle. And he makes passing remarks about Colm O'driscoll.
While Dutch can't work up the courage to ask Annabelle he does have a young mistress by the name of Susan (you know who). She isn't his love per se though.
Hosea also has his lover Bessie with him
Chapter 2.
Two years later in 1879 the two of them see themselves riding into a dusty town up north.
They, as usual work on ways to rob and hustle the local population. They get a tip to a certain farm owned by a particularly mean and infamous gunslinger. Initially they go to seek him out to see if he is hiding some kind of valuables.
This gunslinger is none other than Lyle Morgan
When Hosea and Durch get there the farm seems to be empty except for a skinny yet cocky teenager. They ask who he is and the boy (you know who) sees right through them and talks slick. While initially annoyed by this Hosea and Dutch take a strange liking to this boy and just as Hosea seems like he is getting some information a gunshot hits the floor by their feet.
Lyle Morgan arrives and chases them away.
He almost kills Hosea but the boy (Arthur) pushes his father as he is about to shoot.
As they escape Hosea looks around and witnesses Lyle beating Arthur for his insolence.
The 2 of them forget about the supposed treasure and vow to save the boy.
This chapter concludes with the execution of Lyle and as a teenage Arthur savours watches his father swing, Hosea and Dutch appear behind his shoulders and offer him a place with them.
As he is leaving Arthur says an emotional goodbye to his teenage sweetheart Mary.
In order to get help through this chapter Dutch enlists his friend/acquaintance Colm O'driscoll and his brother.
This plants the seeds for later in the story.
Chapter 3
This takes place about 2 years later. It follows our company of 3
This one won't have nearly as much detail from my end (sorry)
In this chapter we meet and recruit John and it goes similar to how John explained it in RDR1 with him running away from an orphanage.
Also in this chapter the alliance between O'driscolls and Dutch gets more and more tested and Dutch finally works up the courage to ask out Annabelle and she to reveals her feelings for him. It ends as with both her and John joining the ever increasing gang.
The remaining chapters are all connected with no timeskip (excluding the Epilogue)
Chapter 4.
This is about a year after the precious one and the gang are in their prime. They are happy and free. They are also making quite a name for themselves and becoming notorious.
We see Arthur rob his first bank as seen in that newspaper clipping in rdr2.
Throughout this chapter there is also a substantial influx of members to the gang.
The first of which is a drunk old man whose name is not revealed. But he has a certain charm and wisdom about him that is alsonmey with extreme annoyance and........ L U M B A G O.
Then there's a former soldier that was kicked out of the army and is as dumb as rocks.
Arthur reunites with his sweetheart and persuades her to join him.
The main crux of this chapter (and the next 2) is the increasing tension between Dutch, Hosea and the O'driscolls.
After a few robberies go wrong towards the end of the chapter tensions boil over and Dutch loses his temper (a bit of foreshadowing for his eventual demise) for this first time we know of and starts a brawl with Colm's brother. This quickly evolves into a duel from which the O'driscoll like the coward he is, runs away
Dutch and Hosea return to the gang and announce that the O'driscolls are no longer to be dealt with.
At camp at night later on that night Bessie talks to Hosea. She is panicking. She is emotional. She realises this life is actually quite dangerous and not for her.
She begs Hosea to leave with her or she leaves him.
Hosea reluctantly agrees. He loves Bessie more than Dutch or Arthur and John.
They sneak away in the dead of night without a word of notice to everyone else.
This is when he leaves for a while as he mentioned in rdr2.
The chapter ends with Dutch opening Hoseas tent, he believes Hosea is oversleeping
When he sees it is empty his eyes twitch for a split second before he simply smiles and says "see you around old friend".
(The eye twitch is another bit of foreshadowing, it is the first time someone breaks their loyalty to him. It could also become the reason he often mistrust and brushes Hosea to the side in rdr2.)
Chapter 5.
This picks up immediately afterwards.
We switch characters and play as Dutch for the last 2 chapters.
The happy atmosphere of the previous chapter has gone away as the gang reel from Hosea perceivably ditching them with no warning.
That, combined with the news that they now have real enemies in the O'driscolls.
Overall the mood around camp is very dull.
That is until Uncle rides in all high and mighty, totally unaware of the glum mood and the reasons for it. We soon find out the reason for his glee as from behind him emerges a beautiful lady. She has Raven black hair and green eyes - she may not be the most intelligent but she is charismatic. John immediately takes a liking to her but is too shy to say anything yet. (You know who she is)
This chapter sees the gang continue on as normal otherwise until they eventually run into the O'driscolls again. Only this time its not a one on one.
Its both O'driscoll brothers with 2 cronies and Dutch, Arthur, John and Bill. This is a frosty conversation. It turns into an argument and then (as you can probably predict, a shootout)
Bill takes a shot and it hits the shoulder of Colm. I the chaos Dutch takes his opportunity and point blank shots Colms brother. Again, like coward Colms soon runs away.
Leaving only those two cronies that arrived with them.
Those two guys get left for dead and want revenge. While they did shoot at Dutch and the others they explain that it was just a job and it wasn't personal.
Dutch, the master manipulater he is becoming sees a use for these two and slyly convinces them to join him.
These 2 are both particularly vicious and brutal.
They both have a heart though.
They are also coincidentally brothers.
By the name of Mac and Davey
The chapter ends in tragedy.
After a heist done well later on the boys return to camp. All seems well until it becomes clear to Dutch that someone is missing.
In retaliation for Dutch embarrassing them twice now Colm manages to kidnap Annabelle. He left a note telling Dutch exactly where she is and telling him to come alone.
Dutch makes everyone aware of the situation but reassures them that everything will be fine and he promptly leaves on horseback
As he rides this becomes the iconic Red Dead Redemption moment with beautiful music playing in the background as you ride.
Like far away and compass in rdr1
And unshaken/ that's the way it is in 2.
Dutch gets to the location. It is sunset.
Its a wide field with a hill in the middle. On that hill is a lonely tree. Tied to that tree is Annabelle. She is crying and obviously distressed. As Dutch is struggling to cut her free tragedy occurs. She is shot in the head from a sniper rifle. Shocked and clearly in distress Dutch turns around to see Colm O'driscoll brother with an evil grin on his face
Before Dutch can do anything he is hit on the back of the head by some of Colms thugs and as he is unconscious they tie him to the tree next to his now dead lover.
Hours pass and eventually locals find Dutch. This gets a lot of attention in the local town.
He is clearly in a deep state of shock and trauma so a kind preacher allows him to recover at his church. That preacher is Reverend Swanson
This whole traumatic ordeal is the event that truly sets Dutch on his dark path we see him on in both later games.
The final cutscene is Hosea reading a newspaper headline and finding out what went down in his absence
Consumed by guilt he blames himself for not being there and sets off to return. Bessie in tow
Chapter 6.
The final chapter of the main game
This chapter begins a number of weeks later as Dutch is recovering under Swansons care.
He has been separated from the gang for too long and they are without a leader.
He has personally confided in Swanson and trusts him.
He decides to himself that while he does want revenge Swan convinces him its better to get back to the gang and make sure they all OK.
Meanwhile in that local town the people have their own problems with him.
He is a womaniser and partial to the drink.
They all chase him and Dutch out of town.
This leaves Swanson with no home so he has no choice but to join the gang.
As Dutch returns he fears for the worse because the gang have gone. There is evidence of a huge shootout.
But he is happy to find a note left by none other than Arthur which explains that shortly after Duch left to save Annabelle the camp was ambushed by the O'driscolls and they were outnumbered 3 to 1. They all escaped to a location not too far away.
When they arrive at said location Dutch us extremely proud to find out that Arthur has taken charge of them temporarily and ked them to safety. As a result of this and in the absence of Hosea Dutch promotes Arthur to his second in command.
It is also then revealed that Mary left Arthur because of all this chaos.
Throughout this chapter we see the gang recover slowly but surely and start robbing and hustling again.
They meet a young Mexican renegade who was exiled from his home. Dutch admires this man's passion and recruits him. (Javier)
John and Abigail start to properly fall in love
Just small moments that lead to a less eventful conclusion of chapter 6.
That is until after yet another heist as the gang return to camp Javier sees a strange man sat at the campfire. He approaches this intruder and tries to forcefully evict him from the camp
In a split second the man jumps up and puts his gun to javier "ease up there sunshine"
This man is Hosea.
Thus ensues an emotional reunion with him and his prodigal sons Arthur and John,
Then the rest of the gang that knew him.
But there is quite a lot of confusion among the newer members.
Dutch greets him with great pleasure but not convincing emotion. Its evident that Dutch is a little hurt still after Hosea left.
Hosea expresses his deep condolences about being gone and Dutch forgives him.
The main game ends with the gang literally riding into the sunset with Hosea telling a funny story in the background.
The redemption in this red dead redemption refers to Hosea redeeming himself for leaving.
The reason the ending is not quite as eventful as the other games is because the it is a combination of the gang recovering from the events of chapter 5 and the calm before the storm of the Epilogue.
Riding into the sunsrt is a bittersweet moment because we all know it doesn't end well.
It is also different because it breaks the pattern of having the main character die. Here it doesn't happen.
Epilogue.
This is the where the lack of truly huge moments from chapter 6 pays off.
It begins around 15 years later in 1899 as the gang travels south from the Grizzlies mountain range into West Elizabeth.
It follows the events of Arthur's Journal in RDR2
The gang has now swelled in numbers and there are nearly 20 of them now.
As they are travelling through the north of West Elizabeth they meet a traumatised young woman at the side if the road by the name of Jenny. This is all one giant cutscene. After this Dutch spots a saloon and sends the gang onward to set up camp outside Blackwater.
Inside this saloon we meet the devil himself, Micah. Thus plays out the events that Micah described in rdr2 of how he met Dutch.
Then skip a bit later as Dutch returns to Camp with this new member the camera shifts into gameplay and we are playing as none other than mac Callander.
The Epilogue is full of a load of character moments and fan service.
We do missions in Blackwater and West Elizabeth and the whole RDR2 map is now open. We were previously playing in the numerous states north of the Grizzlies.
The equivalent of Nevada, Arizona, california etc.
We assist Hosea and Arthur in their scheme
But throughout this micah is getting in Dutches ear about a certain ferry.
The next few missions are settling up fir a heist. The very heist that goes so badly wrong.
But since this game would conclude the story once and for all we would now see the actual events that take place.
We see what exactly led to Dutch shooting that woman.
Davey gets shot in the belly
Sean gets grabbed
The ending of the Epilogue is Mac sacrificing himself to buy the gang some time to escape.
He goes down in a blaze of glory
But ultimately dies the same way he lived.
Like a dog.
Shot in the head after a cold final conversation with one agent Milton.
Roll credits
You might wonder how we might play the game in the open world after this because the character we were playing died and directly after this is rdr2.
Do what other open worlds do after a point of no return and load you back to just before the final mission.
I spent 4 hours writing this so i would really appreciate all your feedback.
As I was writing this it got more detailed than I was expecting and it became a mini fan fiction.
Thank you for reading. 👍
I don’t know if anyone else has experienced this but I know I hadn’t the other two times I played through the story mode in RDR2 but I got arrested in Saint Denis and a cut scene prompted and Hosea got me out. Just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience? I personally thought it was awesome that something like that was added to the game.